Re: [nukkad] Nukkad law

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  A book is the only immortality.
	-- Rufus Choate
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harshal Chhaya wrote:
 
> There was certainly no paucity of time or place. My belief is that  religious leaders on all sides throttled any open discussion.

I don't think hindu religious leaders ever thwarted any discussion. It
might have been happening during veda period when it was said that put
molten lead in the ears of a shoodra if he listens to veda. But not
today, not in last 1000 years. And state/ nation government have also
followed suit by freely making laws banning wrong practices among
hinduism.

How could Sati have disappeared without discussion?
How could widow-remarriage have begun without discussion?
How could hindu population have reduced from 5-10 children to 2-3
children per couple without discussion?
How could untouchability, child-marriage zamindaari, soodkhori, benaami,
thakuraaee, bandhuaa and many such things disappeared without
discussion? ...............

Do muslims have any such list of improvements in their style of living
during last 14 centuries?

> After all, if the aam junta start thinking and questioning their religion, the power of these leaders would be questioned and their hold on the masses would be weakened beyond repair. It was in their best interests to continue to foster distrust and suspicion between the religions.

Has happened in Christianity and Islam, but not, never in Hinduism. I
don't think any hindu religious leader has any hold on hindu public
today.

Rohit wrote:
> > Whenever a few did, someone like Harshal Kumar showed his
> > dissent.............and all these centuries have gone in
> > the wind without learning.

No. the centuries have also not got wasted. Post Copernicus, Galileo,
Darwin, Christianity also learned and today is totally free from the
vices of any religious leader. Islam has yet to cross the borderline
though, as Azim said it is 7 out of 10 today instead of 10 out of 10 a
few decades or centuries earlier. There is hope. That is what learning
is all about. A humble beginning has been made.

And One Harshal Kumar's dissent strengthens the discussion. A discussion
is not an old-wives-kitty-party of yeah-sayers. Ney-sayers also
contribute and provoke thoughts.

> Have you changed any of your opinions on the basis of what someone wrote here? Do you think someone else now has a broader mind because of what you wrote here?

In my case, I have learned a lot about Islam, Christianity, jewism in
this very list. I came to realise the apprehensions of muslims and
today am more aware and more tolerant towards them.

For that matter, several things I wrote about hinduism/ Islam made my
own mind get clearer ideas about issues. Azim posted several provocative
queries, but I am happy that myself, and several other members could
give clear cut answers to those. I had to think about several of my
prejudiced, misinformations, and have understood the correct state.

> That would mean that 'nukkad' has truly made a difference to at least one person.

It is indeed serving a purpose. Not only to one person, but to many.

> However, most of the debates here are so argumentative that they  immediately cause people to dig down even further in their beliefs. The tone and slant of most of the messages leaves little scope for true discussion. Instead, what we get is point and counter-point that does not solve any problems.

ae baad-e-saba, de unko bhi, do chaar thapede haule se
Jo door khade hain saahil pe toofan ka nazaara karte hain

'Shal and other neutral, non-participating members, you are seeing only
arguments and the above things because you are not participating.

Once you do, you will feel the real emotional releases which are so
fulfilling and which keep us drowned in these topics.

"Main bapura boodhan dara, raha kinare baith"

Dears,
Paani mein utro to jaano tairane aur dooane ka maza.

> And I would like to know if I have ever stopped any constructive debate from progressing. I am sure that is not the case but if it has ever happened, let me know.

No, you have not stopped any discussion as such. Only that your regular
requests about staying away from religious discussion on nukkad have
given some people that idea. A prejudice has got formed.

Religious discussions are again blooming on nukkad. What harm these are
doing?

That some people do not like them. They should delete those mails.

I did not like that thread about wine/ whisky. I deleted those mails.

Why should we stop others from discussing what we don't like.

> We can't do anything about the lost centuries.

We can learn from them. Revival of Militant hinduism is a learning from
these 14 centuries that Muslims are not made for cohabitation or
co-existance.

yahaa.n tak aate aate sookh jaati hai.n kaee nadiyaa.n
hame.n maaloom hai paani kaha.n thehra huaa hoga
 
> What we can do now is use the resources at our disposal (neighbourhood groups, public meetings, mailing lists, websites, discussion groups etc.) to foster a more open society. I hope we all can drop our in-built  prejudices and use all these venues to truly understand our fellow human beings. 

The realisation has correctly come to most of the people that all this
intolerance is originating from religious beliefs among muslims. That
need to be tackled first before anything constructive or amicable can
come from or with that community.

ye hai veeraana-e-dil, paao.n sambhal kar rakhna
kabhi aabaad tha ek shahar yaha.n, kehte hain.

Of course, it is beginning of a new prejudice. But for the time being,
it is based on the learning from the kattarpanthi past behaviour of
muslim community. If they don't understand and don't start ehaving, the
prejudice will get so strengthened that it can't be shaken. And that
will be worst for all communities.

"tum agar saath dene ka vaada karo".

-Rawat


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, use the form at: http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/#options
This list is archived at: http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/archive.html