Re: A Ride

["Mahesh chandra Gupta" <>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tip of the day:  When angry, count to four; when very angry, swear. - Mark Twain 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

My understanding is as follows:

Q. What is gyan?
A. Real gyan is the knowledge that I am not this body, but the atman. And
that the atman is a part of and one with god. [That is what Jesus meant when
he said he was the son of god. He was not saying he was superior to all
other inhabitants of Nazareth who were mere mortals.]. That body and its
worldly interactions are a chimera. It is this gyan which is facilitated by
a guru. Thus gyan means god realization.

Q. What are the ways of god realization?
A. Gita describes 4 ways: Karma yog, Gyan Yog, Bhakti yog and Raj Yog. First
3 are more important. All lead to god realization. Nishkam karma yog is
stated in Gita to be best.

Q. What is the importance of selflessness in god realization?
A. This is essential. This is inbuilt in the concept of gyan. Gyan is the
realization that the atman is different from the body. Whatever is done is
done by the body. The atman or the purush is aloof. Once the devotee or the
seeker gives up the feeling of self or Ahamkar, then only he can attain god.
Thus selflessness is prerequisite to godliness.

Mita de apni hasti ko,
Agar kutch martaba chahe, [I am not sure about the word martaba, please
correct me]
ki dana khak mein mil kar,
Gul-e-gulzar hota hai.

In this context, how does the following fit:
Now the only way you can travel INSIDE yourself is through your own mind,
> via your own heart and into your own soul. By the time you reach there,
you
> have to have an overwhelming sense of your own SELFNESS. This way when you
> enter the final and narrow Pass, only you go through, and only you come
out
> at the other end. If the Guru guides you, then you are to meditate on his
> face and form, and what comes out at the end is the Guru, for you are
merged
> and effaced.
>
Selfness and selflessness are contradictory!

MC Gupta
July 4










----- Original Message -----
From: "HOMI KAIKOBAD" <homik@primenet.com>
To: <nukkad-list@mumbai-central.com>
Cc: <manashreebhuyan@proudindian.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: A Ride


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Tip of the day:  For daily news and info, join the Mumbai Grapevine
mailing list
>           http://www.mumbai-central.com/grapevine/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> My Thoughts on "A Ride - By Manashree"
>
> Could it be possible that faith in the Babas and Gurus may actually end up
> with us losing more than we can gain?
>
> If the cornerstone of spiritual search is to find one's own self, we are
> lost because that is exactly what the Guru wants, your ego, which is your
> capacity to choose.
>
> Each one the Masters have said categorically, render to us your selfness
and
> we will do the rest. That can happen by giving complete obedience to the
> guidance, whether one likes to or not.
>
> Even Kabir, who otherwise is right on target, says "Guru bina gnan nahi",
> there is no wisdom without the Guru. Why not? Who says so? Why don't you
> try, it's all IN you.
>
> It's also implied that the pathway will not be easy, and perversely, the
> more difficult, the more you are loved by the Guru. To that effect again
> Kabir says, "Kast kasoti jo jhele, tahi ko Shabda sunaye", hwosoever
> sustains difficulty and tests, only such a one will hear the Immaculate
> Name. Why suffer? Can't one as easily reach wisdom without privation and
> suffering?
>
> We are told by Sai Baba of Shirdi to give the two coins on "shraddha,
faith"
> and "saburi, patience". Or we are told to "uge muge', sit and shut up. We
> are told by Nityananda that he is "awwal, khas, primordial, the Banyan
> Tree", and that complete faith and self effacement will bring rewards and
> release.
>
> On the Sufi side, Shams Tabrez, the Guru of Rumi of Konya in Turkey,
demands
> austere obedience to a strict course which ends up in complete surrender.
> Read Rumi's Mathnavi, all he writes is of his love for the Guru, and about
> the Guru.
>
> So here is the problem. If you follow the teachings, which are universal,
> you have given up the power over your own will. There is no other way to
> look at it.
>
> Now the only way you can travel INSIDE yourself is through your own mind,
> via your own heart and into your own soul. By the time you reach there,
you
> have to have an overwhelming sense of your own SELFNESS. This way when you
> enter the final and narrow Pass, only you go through, and only you come
out
> at the other end. If the Guru guides you, then you are to meditate on his
> face and form, and what comes out at the end is the Guru, for you are
merged
> and effaced.
>
> So here is the choice. If you follow a Guru, you have to render your will
> onto him or her, and whatever follows is a dispensation, you have no say
in
> the matter. The process by which you accept this is called faith. You
might
> lose wealth and health and your loved ones must be sacrificed, but you
have
> to keep faith, all is for the better.
>
> But if you choose to endeavor yourself, finding your own SELF in your own
> self, by your own self, keeping valid your Will, you don't have to follow
> anyone, and there is no need for faith on someone else, and there is no
need
> to suffer. What you find by this personally spiritual way is You.
>
> What does it take? Courage, two fold.
>
> One, to break away from the snare of Guru Bhakti. Two, to throw out all
> support systems and depend only on the sanctity of your own Soul, which is
> no less than Godliness.
>
> Arya.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> To Subscribe [Unsubscribe] send a blank message to
>         nukkad-list-request@mumbai-central.com
> with the word 'subscribe' ['unsubscribe'] (without quotes) in the Subject
> of your message.
> The list is archived at  http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/archive.html
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Subscribe [Unsubscribe] send a blank message to 
        nukkad-list-request@mumbai-central.com 
with the word 'subscribe' ['unsubscribe'] (without quotes) in the Subject 
of your message.
The list is archived at  http://www.mumbai-central.com/nukkad/archive.html