Re: [nukkad] Communists in Government Cynthia's concerns

["Dr.M.C. Gupta" <>]

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A good cook is like a sorceress who dispenses happiness. 
-Elsa Schiaparelli, fashion designer (1890-1973)
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Ref:

Cynthia ji,
 
 How is America's power different from Osama's power?
 
 What do you think is the essence of America?
 
 -Rawat

=================================

It is different in that Osama does not gloat in his power. He is from
the Royal Saudi family, has billions cash, is a qualified engineer,
has lived in US in his young days, and STILL, in his old age, with one
diseased kidney surviving on dialysis, he lives the life of a hermit,
living in jungles and caves, FOR A CAUSE [not as a recluse in hiding
from US -- he had been living spartan life even before Afghanistan].
It is this spirit of sacrifice on his part, for a cause [US may not
agree with the cause], which makes others lay down their lives as he
bids, whether as human bombs or as pilots in 9/11.

On the other hand, US gloats in its power--stinking, arrogant power.
Since US does not know how to sacrifice, as beautifully explained by
Rawat in his example of child and parents, US citizens do not know
what is sacrifice. I bet my money if ONE American would lay down his
life as a human bomb like a mujahideen. It needs conviction and guts
to kill oneself for a cause. Both have their roots in culture. What is
US culture? A culture of selfish, self centred consumerist
materialism, not more than 5 centuries old, admixed with slavery for 4
centuries!

That is the difference between power of US and Osama. 

Cynthia mentioned about power and responsibility. Responsibility comes
from within. Power comes from without, at least, in case of US. Real
power that comes from within is moral power, not power of dollars and
bombs. Law is part of social sciences and Cynthia is a lawyer and
would easily relate to the basic jurisprudential concept of rights and
duties as propounded by Hohfeld, an American jurist. If US thinks it
has a right to transform world order [laid down by none else than
God], what commensurate duties has it envisioned for itself? She is
expected to know one of the root  causes of Iraq war. All those WMD
were, knowingly, false and humbug, an excuse to crush Iraq for its
temerity to decide that henceforth, it would be petro-euros, not
petro-dollars. To clarify, Iraq decided to link its oil trade with
Euro in place of the dollar as earlier. Other Arab countries were
likely to follow the same, and, this set alarm bells ringing. Any
knwoledgeable economist would tell you that US has massive money
deficit, but is able to camouflage it because world trade is linked to
dollar. The day the primacy of dollar goes, that day US would
collapse. That is the real reason why US attacked iraq to teach it a
lesson and prevent others from following that path.

Cynthia, please do not mind what I write and do not take it
personally. This is a great list and allows free and unmoderated
exchange of ideas, usually of a high intellectual calibre. You would
have found by now that the members are, by and large, well read. most
are professionals. A large number are net geeks. Homi kaikobad, Taher,
vasudevan, Mean Drake and yours truly are doctors. You and yours very
truly are lawyers. Homi and yours very very truly are poets. I write
this to dissuade you from leaving the list in a huff. we are all well
meaning guys. as about Samira, s/he was admittedly a US citizen, of
Indian origin, on this list for an year. The more charitable think she
was a fairy. the more logical and analytical ones, including a highly
respected lady member, believe she was a mole or a witch carrying out
some sort of project regarding how to manipulate people through e
lists.

It would be a mutual pleasure and rewarding experience for list
members, including yourself, if you continue on this list. the choice
is yours. If you leave, you would be proving that advocates of freedom
of thought are unwilling to concede that freedom to others.

Sincerely,

M C Gupta 
  
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:59:09 +0530, V S Rawat  wrote:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A good cook is like a sorceress who dispenses happiness.
> -Elsa Schiaparelli, fashion designer (1890-1973)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Cynthia.Williams wrote:
> 
> -> Thanks for that.  I do understand that people don't like
> -> us, and in large part I don't blame them.  I can say
> -> we're not evil, but maybe we are and I just don't know it
> -> because I am too.  But I think it has more to do with
> -> humans being imperfect,
> 
> Instead of going into may-bes or may-not-bes, one can rely
> on basic human capability of self-awareness.
> 
> It helps to transcend the shell of our ego or self, and see
> ourself in our place in the world, not seeing the world from
> our eyes.
> 
> Then, one can use the absolute objective scales of right and
> wrong, good and evil, virtue and vice, ... to judge whether
> what has happened was right or not, and what was his or her
> own role in propogating or not opposing when a wrong was
> committed.
> 
> -> and, as a quote the other day
> -> stated - power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts
> -> absolutely.
> 
> But, one of the superheroes coined by America is taught
> "with power comes responsibility".
> 
> Without responsibility, power of a state is no different
> from the power of a mafia don.
> 
> -> We have power, and we do abuse it, but I'm
> -> not so sure that others in power elsewhere don't do the
> -> same.  That doesn't make it right, but we're all human.
> -> Even Americans! :-)
> 
> You got my undivided attention now. so face it.
> 
> Actually, there are two aspects of every person or role
> which both needs to be fulfilled if a relationship is to
> continue, let alone bloom.
> 
> Take the example of parents and child. Parents are always
> discipliningg the child, putting hundreds of dos and don'ts,
> forcing him through hundreds of things which he would rather
> not have done on his free will, be it learning to walk, or
> to speak, or toilet training, or going to school, or not
> succumbing to early temptations of play, girls and drugs.
> 
> See from the eyes of the child when all this is done to him.
> He is not aware of long term implications of these things.
> And he would rather not have done any single things out of
> it, if he could have avoided these.
> 
> But still a child loves his parents. Why?
> 
> It is because the sacrifices the parents make for the child.
> They feed him, cover his body, shelter his head. they
> provide millions of things to him. What for? they could have
> lived without a child and have spent all that time and money
> and other resources for their own enjoyment.
> 
> But the thought never crosses their minds, and they keep on
> doing it for some 20+ years just because he is their child.
> That is the sacrifice which makes the child forget all the
> hardships his parents make him go through.
> 
> If parents bring only hardships and do no sacrifice, the
> relationship can't last. children commit suicide or run away.
> 
> If parents  do only sacrifices and do not discipline the
> child, the relationship can't last. children become spoilt
> and a threat to themselves and society.
> -------------------
> 
> Now, about a child. A child is always chaotic. He keeps on
> creating tiny and big nuisances creating work for his
> parents. He breaks things, tears things, dirties things, he
> keeps on asking questions, he keeps on complaining, he keeps
> on demanding this or that.
> 
> Why do parents tolerate all this?
> 
> They do because of the element of creativity in a child.
> That creativity is what makes a child alive, and different
> from a doll or a toy. when he makes all those lines on the
> wall, parents enjoy the drawings he has created which no toy
> or doll can create. When he asks uncessant question, parent
> try to fathom the state of his mind and perception.
> 
> If a child is only creating nuisance but shows no
> creativity, no parent is going to be happy with him.
> 
> If a child shows only creativity, and does no nuisance, well
> , I am not aware of such a creature ever born in human race.
> 
> -------------
> 
> With such a long preface, if you are recognising that you
> (your nation) have the power over the world, what is that
> secondary virtue you have that compensates for it, so that a
> relationship with rest of the world can bloom?
> 
> India had been a colony of UK and its proxies for centuries
> and they exploited us thoroughly. But there are school of
> thoughts in India which credit UK for establishing basic
> infrastructure in India without which we could not have
> survived for long as a nation or a culture in these changing
> times.
> 
> British established education system, postal system, railway
> system, legal system, and what not in India in the duration
> of their occupation of our country. Now that the dust of
> their departure is settled, we are a more strong country
> because of all these things they did. We, as a nation, were
> capable of producing a mahatma gandhi who could show them
> the door without lifting a finger and without shedding a
> drop of blood.
> 
> Those who recognise these compensating contributions of
> british, nurture a mutually fulfilling relationship between
> India and UK. Those whose heart pains at recognising any of
> these, keep on sufferring like Pakistan who is doing a hide
> and seek in commenwealth.
> 
> -----------------
> When one talks only of power and does not mention whatever
> that other compensating aspect is, (responsibility?), it
> becomes an empty boasting or bragging and not something that
> others who have faced the brunt of it would like to talk
> about or listen to.
> 
> Cynthia ji,
> 
> How is America's power different from Osama's power?
> 
> What do you think is the essence of America?
> 
> -Rawat
> 
> 
> 
> 
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